help with permits please

[luchopatagonico]

i am trying to figure it out where to go. i am going to Yosemite in october for 8/10 days i've been reading a lot and apparently it is very popular to go from half dome to tuolume meadows. my question is, for doing that which permits do i need, how many of them? do i need a permit only from where i am starting my hike?
any help would be greatly appreciated. this system is new for me, in argentina where i come from you just hike whenever and whatever you want. please help, this is stressing me out.

[transponster]

You need to reserve a wilderness permit for the trailhead where you're starting your hike, or if you can't get a reservation, you can try for a walk-up permit the day before your hike. I'm guessing you are planning to start from Happy Isles, but there are other options, especially if you are planning to be out for 8-10 days (Happy Isles to Tuolumne won't take nearly that long, even with the side trip to Half Dome). When you reserve your permit, you need to specify that you will be going to Half Dome - they set aside a percentage of the daily Half Dome quota for wilderness permit holders.

However, since you are going in October, be aware that the cables usually come down in the middle of that month. Clouds Rest would be a good alternative - my opinion is that the view is better from up there anyway, plus it doesn't require a permit to go up on the summit.

Also, keep in mind that in October, you are flirting with the possibility of winter weather, especially if you are going to be out for 8-10 days.

[Phil]

Oh yeah, I've got to agree on the timing being a huge issue. That time of year in the high country, for 8-10 days, there's a really high likelihood that weather is going to pound you at some point, especially since forecasters are predicting an El Nino this year. You're not quite even in the shoulder season, so going in without almost full winter gear will either turn you back or be potentially deadly.

For the time you want to spend, I think I would do the John Muir Trail from Yosemite Valley- Tuolumne Meadows as leg 1 in order to get your higher altitudes out of the way and visit Half Dome (if the cables are still up). When you come back down, camp along Sunrise Creek on night 1, second night at Upper Cathedral Lake, exit Tuolumne Meadows on day 3; from there, do a pass-through to Glen Aulin and the lower elevations of the Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne, exit White Wolf at about 7500 feet 3 hiking days later, then overnight going back down Yosemite Creek to the Valley again. Depending on what kind of shape you're in, you can fairly easily pull off the full loop in your time allowed. Stay well apprised of the weather forecasts and adjust accordingly though. Off hand, I think your total trip length will be about 65 or so miles, and you'll see a wide variety of the park in the process.

At that time of year it's doubtful that you will have any problems getting the permits on a walk-up basis. You might need to get multiple permits since you're technically entering and exiting several trail heads, but the rangers are really good at making things work out when you explain your itinerary and route. I would plan it out being realistic about your abilities, but I wouldn't stress out about it at all, just look forward to it.

[luchopatagonico]

thanks so much for the data and tips. now i am facing another issue and is that the shuttles stop running in September so i don't know how i am gonna be able to get back to my car once i am done. do you think that is it possible to hitch a ride from Tuolumne Meadows to yosemite valley? if that is not an option do you think that the same itinerary would work the other way around, hiking fromTuolumne Meadows to the valley or that would be a bad idea. and also maybe doing 2 4 days loop instead of an 8 days leg? that way i can start and finish at my car avoiding the issue of the lack of public transportation.
thanks very much

[luchopatagonico]

phil, I've been reading the poor online map that i have now, tomorrow i am getting the topo, and if i understood correctly you are actually solving all my problems at once. if i read it correctly i would be hiking for 6/8 days and with a chance to pull the plug if weather gets too nasty and ending in the same spot that i parked the car. if that is the case, y eternal gratitude.

[AlmostThere]

remember that overnight parking on Tioga Road is no longer allowed after October 15. This is due to increased likelihood that snow will close the road for the winter season. If you are over on the east side somewhere and it snows enough to stick on Tioga Road, the gates close and all vehicle traffic ceases - you would not be able to get back to your car by the YARTS but you would have to get out to Mammoth Lakes and take Amtrak or other public transport around through Tehachapi or possibly up through Tahoe.

if I were you, I would plan my trip so that you return to Yosemite Valley on the trail. White Wolf and Tuolumne Meadows Will be shut down, no services at all, for the season in September. You'll wind up walking on the road or on another trail for a while if you come out at White Wolf.

You will also need snow chains in your car regardless. Yosemite requires them to be in the car in winter . If there is so much as a centimeter of snow on the road they slap down a requirement and fine offenders - I have been turned around before!

[Phil]

Yes, the reason why the loop back down from White Wolf via roughly 3 miles of easy trail from there to the Lukens Lake trail head, crossing the road, and then heading down towards Yosemite Creek to the Falls Trail would be perfect. You get back to the car in the Valley since shuttles don't run past mid September, as well as that pesky fact that parking on Tioga Rd is prohibited after 10/15. However, you don't get to pull the plug unless you plan to hitchhike or catch a ride, which is the reason why being realistic about your abilities is critical. Sixty five miles is a pretty fair haul, and you will have no shortage of vertical gain to test yourself. But, it is a big full loop, it keeps your car out of any weather or road related restrictions, and it does limit the time you end up spending at higher elevations.

[AlmostThere]

There will be no second or third permit, either, and walking on roads is technically exiting the wilderness. All wilderness permits go self service in October except for the valley visitor center.

I don't think, given the forecast, that this trip is safe without winter gear and winter EXPERIENCE.

[Phil]

Well, differences of opinion aside: be smart, be ready for whatever you might face, know your limitations, keep your wife safe because you love her, be man enough to know if/when to call it quits, have a Plan B, have up-to-date weather forecasts, carry a rescue beacon, and get a better map.

It can either be a fantastic adventure in a beautiful place, or it can be the trip through Hell. We all have to take our own inventories and decide for ourselves how it's going to go.

[luchopatagonico]

the map is coming. we have plenty of winter gear, we used to hike in patagonia a lot.when things get tough the tough keeps going but i rather be smart and when thing get tough i evaluate the situation and if it is really bad i get the hell out of there. there is no shame in quitting.

[Phil]

Well put! It's all doable under the right circumstances, and I happen to firmly believe that what I proposed is a solid and safe route. Coming from Argentina, I figured that the conditions of places like Patagonia and Aconcagua were something you might be familiar with. Don't hesitate to ask for any more route info if you need it. If the rangers in the Yosemite Valley Wilderness Center won't give you a single pass-through permit for the entire trip, so what, grab a couple extra forms and self-register wherever they say you need to if you're entering a new trail head past 10/15- they're primarily concerned with complying with the mandated quota system anyhow, and that time of year is not peak season by any stretch. But do be sure to bring a PLB, watch the current weather forecasts very closely, and leave a copy of your trip itinerary with someone you know that can contact the proper authorities if there are any major problems.

Via con Dios!

[luchopatagonico]

what do you guys think about this two options:

1-tuolumne to glen aulin
2- glen aulin to may lake
3-may lake to sunrise
4- sunrise to merced lake
5- merced lake to vogeslang
6-vogeslang to tuolumne

that is one option weather permitting.
the other one is two shorter loops:
1 tuolumne-glen aulin
2 glena aulin-may lake
3- may lake- sunrise
4- sunrise- cathedral lakes-
5- cathedral lakes- tuolumne

and 1- tuolumnes- vogelsang
2-vogelsang- tuolumne via jmt (spending an extra night on vogelsang)

what do you think about these would i be missing much if don't get to see merced lake?
is it vogelsang that great?
i ve been trying to decide but eveything sounds and looks amazing.


ps: phil, we consider your route but my wife wasn't a fan of the 3/4 day hike from glen aulin to yosemite valley and you know how it goes, happy wife...

[Phil]

Ah, so you got your map.

I think both trips sound great, but the problem is still going to be that you're at altitude in October.

The first trip is basically the High Sierra Camps loop. Toulumne-Glen Aulin is about the lowest of the elevations- 8500 ft and 7800 feet respectively. From Glen Aulin to May Lake (9300 ft) is what I personally consider somewhat of an uneventful trail. When you get up to the pass between Upper Sunrise Lake and the Sunrise High Sierra Camp, you're at about 9800 ft. After climbing a little over to the trail going along Catherdral Creek, you climb back up to roughly the same elevation as the previous pass again, then drop down into Echo Valley at about 7000 ft, camping at Merced Lake at 7400 ft. Then you CLIMB up to Vogelsang at about 10,000 ft. Then dropping back down to Tuolumne. Yes though, Fletcher and Vogelsang Peaks are pretty spectacular. Upper Cathedral Lake is at 9600ft, and Cathedral Pass is about 9700ft. I have a pretty comprehensive set of photos of your entire route(s) (lakes, peaks, views, trails...) that I can't seem to upload for some reason, so, if you're interested, send me your email address via private message and I'll send you whatever you want to see. With your route, it is going to boil down to at least 5-6 days out, and as was mentioned, you don't get any breaks in between for services like supplies or burgers because of seasonal closures. Also, you do know that for a trip of this length, in addition to at least your just-in-case winter gear, you're both going to have to still carry bear canisters (with probably AT LEAST an extra day of food...if not more), right? That's not even something that's negotiable. If I'm carrying a pack with that kind of load, I consider myself very lucky if I can keep it under 50lbs, and then I can only do that with compromising something.

I think I'm reiterating what everyone that's replied to you on your trip when I say that we're all concerned about the weather and where you're going, in the month you're going. With the rationale I was using, I was trying to minimize your time at higher elevations, the highest being one day's hike going past Sunrise Camp to Cathedral Lake along the JMT. From Tuolumne at 8500 ft, you dropped to Glen Aulin at 7800 ft, then down the canyon to Pate Valley at only just under 4400ft, then climbing out to White Wolf at 7800 ft again, then down even more back to your car in the Valley. But, I get the happy wife thing. If there's any possible way to move your trip up to no later than the middle of September, you'll not only get more out of it in terms route options and services along the way, bad weather will probably be more of a passing fluke than anything to actually worry about.