Help with 2 nights - 3 days route / Tioga road trailheads

[Evelyn]

This will be my very first time to backpack in Yosemite and I'm already feel confused. We've backpacked trough Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, Rockies, Alaska and many more places, but we never had such a hard time to get permit 5 month ahead of time. My first choice was Tuolumne meadows or Tenaya lake to Lower Pines Campground, but I'm late for the beginning of July, my request was rejected. So now I have to figure something else.
Our group will be 11 people including 3 kids 11-12 years old (experienced enough hikers ) We have 3 full days - 2 nights.
Now questions:
1) Is it possible to hike from White Wolf to Tenaya Lake in such a period of time?
2) What is better/nicer/easier - exit at Tenaya Lake or Tuolumne Meadows?
3) Any other suggestions for ~20 miles hike for big group nice enough it can be somewhat compared to Yosemite valley with easy enough access from Lower Pines Camp with bus?

Also, do I understand it right, that there is some kind of bus we can hop on from our end point to start trail-head on Tioga road?
Thanks

[AlmostThere]

White Wolf to Tenaya Lake is mostly in forest, with some opportunities for views. Tuolumne to White Wolf - or the other direction - via the Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne would be nicer, along the river (such as it will be in this dry, dry year) with all its waterfalls. There are bridges over the major water crossings. The worst part would be climbing out of Pate to White Wolf, if it was at all hot - that section is best done in the morning early.

Exiting at Tenaya Lake severely limits you as there is only the highway, and unless you have a car waiting you are at the mercy of the free shuttle schedule or hitchhiking. Not even sure the hiker bus or YARTS has a stop there. Exiting at Tuolumne Meadows affords you the Lodge, campground including the backpacker campground, store, grill, bus stops, and phone.

Why do you want to hike to Lower Pines Campground? You won't be able to leave a vehicle there. The terminating point for any backpack will be a bus stop at Happy Isles or walking to trailhead parking or Curry Village.

It would be best to leave the car at the end point and figure out which bus (YARTS, hiker bus, or free shuttle, or combination thereof) you need to get to the start. Yarts.com, yosemitepark.com, and nps.gov/yose will have info on schedules for YARTS, the Tuolumne hiker bus, and the free shuttles respectively. Free shuttles run every 20 minutes or so from one stop to the other and are limited to specific areas such as the valley floor and Tuolumne Meadows - Tioga gate - Olmstead Point. The hiker bus requires tickets which are purchased online or at Yosemite Lodge. YARTS is a transit that goes from Merced into the park, from Mammoth (when the pass is open) into the park, and there are several busses with once a day runs each direction.

The Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne would begin/end at an established bus stop, a lodge, campground, store, etc - and there is a backpacker camp at each. So go to Tuolumne Meadows to pick up the reserved permit the day before you start hiking, and you can stay in either the backpacker camp at TM or the one at WW the night before for 5/person. Rent the bear cans while you're getting the permit - they won't give you the permit without them. Get on the bus to the starting end in the morning, hike the trail back to the car, spend another night in the backpacker camp at that end if you want/need to, and drive away home the next day. Easy peasy. Could do the same thing if you did a backpack from Tuolumne Meadows to the valley floor.

[Evelyn]

Thanks for answer AlmostThere
As far as Lower pines - we're going to stay there for the whole week, so I was thinking to pick my permit there day before, get into two vans, get to Tuolumne meadows, leave vans there, get onto bus to White wolf. We should be on the trail by 11 am. Is there any benefit going other way from Tuolumne to White wolf? I thought it is much steeper up that way.
But main question - is this trail doable in 3 days? I know I can make 25 miles in 2 days with slight elevation gain/loss, but the only info I found on this trail is this report http://www.trimbleoutdoors.com/ViewTrip/1034784 . 8.5 miles a day does not sound bad at all, shouldn't take more than 5-6 hours a day, but for some reason it took in this case 6 days.

Today I reserved a permit from Yosemite Creek to Yosemite falls "just in case", after I realized there is no available permits for my originally planned trip. I was thinking to go all the way pass Lehamite falls, stay for second night at the North Dome and go back along Lehamite creek, and then down to valley. But I'm not sure if I'm allowed to do so with my permit.

[AlmostThere]

I did Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne in two and 1/3 days and felt it was rather leisurely pacing for me. Your pacing may be different. That trip report is obviously from someone who does not hike or backpack, and has no endurance - he probably also had a very heavy pack (I've seen the ones who shop at the Heavy Hiking Gear Store, aka Big 5) and no clue.

It is gradually downhill and very steep uphill to White Wolf, or, very steep downhill followed by gradual uphill to Tuolumne. Some people have more trouble with steep downhills, some do not like steep uphill. I would go from Tuolumne to WW in a heartbeat but would not do the steep part out of Pate in the afternoon - I would either wait until dark or do it first thing in the morning.

I'm not sure what you mean by the second route. North Dome is on the way to Yosemite Falls. The only other trail down to the valley is Snow Creek. You would stop at North Dome on the way to Yosemite Falls, and could easily go a little farther to Eagle Meadows before backtracking and going down Yosemite Falls trail. They don't care where you go as long as you enter and exit on the days you specify on the permit and follow the regulations - there are no camping zones that the ranger will point out to you when you pick up the permit.

You are confusing me still - why the heck would anyone pay for a campsite while you are backpacking? Check out and put everything in trailhead parking for free while you are backpacking. That makes no sense at all.

[Evelyn]

OK, now I understand a little more you're my light at the end of the tunnel )))

Snow creek area trail-heads are already full for my dates, so whoever I spoke on the phone yesterday, said that Yosemite creek trail joints with the one going from the Snow creek, that is why I was asking if I can go either direction. But now I will cancel permit for the Yosemite creek and book one for the Grand canyon of theTuolumne.

Why are we paying for the campground - we will stay there 2 nights before and 3 nights after hike. There will be more people in our group who will not backpack, therefore, it's easier for me to spend extra $$ then pack and unpack tents and other camping gear or worry about re-booking same sites next to my friends. I have different set of gear for backpacking.

Different parks have different requirements, we had to mark our trail on the map in Yellowstone when applied for the permit and were warned that rangers will check if we're following our planned trail, that is why I have all these questions. But anyway, thanks a lot for your help!

[AlmostThere]

Well, the one firm thing is that you start from the entry trailhead on the permit on the day you are registered to start - no if's, and's or buts. The other firm thing is you will have bear canisters and they will be on the list of approved canisters. If you want to leave the trail a day early, reroute for some reason, that's not really going to register as a crime - things happen and they would rather you were safe than sorry.

They'll ask where you intend to camp each night. That's their opportunity to help you not camp in no-camping zones. There are a lot of them in the busier parts of the park.

Another sure thing -- Grand Canyon of the Tuolumne is a lot less strenuous than going up Yosemite Falls and coming down Snow Creek with a backpack.

[balzaccom]

Your biggest challenge here is going to be a permit for such a large group, If there were only two of you, it would be no problem. I would work now on getting a permit at ANY trailhead for your dates that will allow 11 people. Then work with us to get the best destinations from there.

And the east side, with Twin Lakes, Bloody Canyon, Viriginia Lakes, or Twenty Lakes Basin are always easier in terms of permits...

We've got info on those areas on our website as well

[RickM]

With regards to reserving a permit for such a large group, you might want to start by looking at this link:

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/trailheads.htm

It will show you the total number of reservable spots for each trailhead. You'll notice that many trailheads don't allow 11 reservable spots in total, so there would be no point in trying to reserve 11 spots there.

Rick M.

[AlmostThere]

Yup. Starting at White Wolf, there are lots of slots - 18 - reservable. Starting at Tuolumne and getting a WaterWheel falls passthrough there are less than 11. Staying the night at Glen Aulin will mean a long two days after - the 21 slots make it easy to get, but it would be a very short first day and make it hard to get down the canyon further.

If you had to start at Tuolumne and then stay at Glen Aulin, I would modify it and make it a loop ending at Tuolumne again instead of a thru.