Three Nights in the Backcountry

[burley]

Hey all, I’m new to the forum but have been reading it for a while and found all kinds of great info. Thanks for the resource! Despite my perusing of the forum threads I still had a few questions I was hoping you could help me with regarding my upcoming backpacking trip in Yosemite.

Our proposed itinerary is as follows, starting July 24th:
• Day 1: Start from Mono Meadow, sleep before we get to Little Yosemite Valley (between flags 4&5) or march on to camp in Lost Valley (between flags 10&11) 11.5 miles, 1800’ total elev gain
• Day 2: Hike to Merced Lake, sleep near base of Clouds Rest (flag 22) (10 miles, 2000’ total elev gain)
• Day 3: Hike to top of Clouds Rest, descend and sleep near base of Half Dome (flag 30) (5 miles, 700’ total elev gain)
• Day 4: Hike to top of Half Dome and descend to Yosemite Valley (9.5 miles, 1800’ total elev gain)
• A map of our trip with distances and elevations can be found here: http://www.runningmap.com/?id=752294.

Now, the areas where I could use some advice:
1. Feedback on the proposed itinerary. Too much? Better options? Anybody suggest a different itinerary?
2. We plan to leave our car at Mono Meadow, but would rather descend to the Valley (so we can experience the rest of the trail down, and get an easier hike down to the Valley rather than up to Glacier Point?). Official shuttle options won’t work for our timeline, so only option would be to hitchhike from the Valley or have one of us (or both) go up to Glacier Point rather than down to the Valley. Thoughts?
3. Campsites: are there flat areas to pitch a tent and water near the proposed locations? Anyone have GPS suggestions of better locations?
4. What are the trails like along our route? Rocky? Packed dirt, etc? It’ll make a huge difference to whether the 2 yo can hike or not.
5. How are the mosquitos towards end of July (repellent needed, repellent enough?)
6. Kids recommendations (Yosemite specific and in general)

A bit of info on us: My wife and I backpack a couple times a year in Northern and Southern Utah but have never been to Yosemite. We’re not in amazing shape but a couple thousand foot gain over 10 miles is doable in a day. We are taking two of our kids: the 24 month old can hike up to a mile at a time and we’ll use a carrier for the rest. The 5 month old will be carried with an Ergo-type front carrier. We’ve backpacked with them a couple of times but would welcome age-appropriate suggestions.

Thanks in advance!

[AlmostThere]

I would really think twice about taking little kids to the top of Half Dome... that does not sound at all like fun, particularly if they are squirming and needing to pee, and you get caught in a traffic jam on the cables. Which is less frequent these days given the permit system ( you do have permits, yes?) but still a possibility and worth thinking about. Adult type people have fallen off the cables in the past just because they dropped a camera - I can't imagine having a squirmy toddler in front of me or on my back while trying to get around people coming down and stuck people frozen in terror on one of the boards clinging for dear life to both cables....

It sounds like a pretty strenuous trip to me. Carrying two kids plus bear cans plus overnight gear - what elevations have you hiked at before? People have struggled with elevations as low as 5000 feet. You'll be above 9000 on Clouds Rest.

Descending to Yosemite Valley on this route will require you to either go down the Mist Trail (huge granite steps, difficult for short legged people or for people carrying backpacks - I would guess the addition of kids would make you especially tippy, so this is probably more treacherous for you) or on the John Muir Trail switchbacks, which is longer but more gradual and fewer steps. The tourists on the Mist Trail tend to be in the hundreds as well, particularly in the afternoon - you may find yourself jostled on those steep steps often.

It will be very hot in the afternoons, on open granite. Managing sun exposure will be critical - and the sun bounces up from the ground as well, so a hat AND very good sunblock plus lip balms with SPF protection are a must. It may be in the 90s - 100s in Yosemite at the end of July at lower elevations. When hiking in Yosemite midsummer, I try to get a VERY early start, sometimes before sunrise, and stop hiking in the afternoons between 1 - 4 pm if it gets into the 90s. This is an important consideration with little ones who can be very sensitive to their own comfort, or for extremely fair people (like me, I sunburn just thinking about being in the full sun on granite).

[burley]

AT, thanks for the info. We hike and camp often at elevation (and live at almost 5000ft), so we aren't TOO concerned about elevation. We also often hike in southern Utah so we are used to heat management with kids (shaded carriers, water bottle to keep them wet, sunscreen, breaks). Your feedback is great..we are considering leaving the youngest home and looking at 'bail' options to make a smaller loop and less total miles.

Would you suggest exiting to Glacier Point rather than the Valley (due to the crowds and steep descent to the valley)? It would mean us missing the lower falls, but maybe that's not a big deal. Obviously we'll have to adjust the shuttle plans accordingly.

Also, I failed to ask about sleeping bags, what type of temperatures should we expect at elevation late July? We were planning on light 30 to 50 degree bags, sound about right?

Any camping spot suggestions along our route, with water? We are considering cutting out the loop to the lake and working slowly towards Half Dome instead (maybe day trips to Clouds Rest and/or Half Dome).

[AlmostThere]

There really aren't bail out options.

There won't be a lot of water left. The drought decimated the creeks last year, and it will be more of an issue this year. There is a spring somewhere on the trail to Half Dome - but springs dry up in summer as well.

Exiting Glacier Point adds miles of exposed uphill hiking and if you have not reserved tix for the tour bus or left a car up there, it'll add four plus miles of knee-hammering downhill on the Four Mile Trail to the end of the day.

I won't go into the Sierra without insulation to keep me happy below freezing; even someplace as low as Little Yosemite Valley can be freezing while it's 50F in Yosemite Valley. We experienced that on one outing, when a fellow decided his heavy bag could stay in the car, based on 50f temps overnight in the valley floor - he shivered in someone's mylar blanket all night in LYV. The day temps can be in the 80s then night temps plummet into the 40s. I've been snowed on in August and seen crazy lows in July - though this year it's been unreasonably warm, it's still possible.

If you want to be sure of water, a route along the river or to lakes would be better.

[Grzldvt]

Have to dive in and go with AT. I am really curious how you are going to carry the equipment and food you need for a trip like that AND carry two small children? Knowing you have to carry diapers both new and used can be a pretty heavy package, plus the aroma alone could be overwhelming over that span of time. You will not be allowed to bury them, you need to pack them out.
Carrying equipment and two small children up the last 200 yards of Cloud's Rest is precarious at best. if you have any fear of heights at all, this is going to be beyond a challenge. In no way shape or form would I let a 24 month old hike that section on their own. Even holding their hand can be dicey.
Personally, I would get a camp site in T-Meadows for the same amount of time and day hike the area(s). You could day hike Clouds Rest from Sunrise and be able to carry the kid(s) along with the needs for the day hike. Forget Half Dome with the kids.
For an overnighter do Murphy's Creek, Glen Aulin, May Lake(This is a good option, crowded, but it is an easy bail out of the kid(s) are having problems)
AS I stated earlier, just my opinion but what you are looking to do is way too ambitious with the kids.

[AlmostThere]

I think a campsite and day hiking would be much safer for everyone.

You won't be carrying heavy packs and children up steep granite in the full sun at higher elevations than you are used to, the kids' moods and symptoms can change your plans and keep you relaxing in the campsite if necessary, and you will have a bear locker to keep a bunch of goodies and toys in (everything smelling like food goes in the bear can, toys for little kids will smell like food as well as car seats, diapers, lotions, powders, formula, and baby wipes - and need to be in the lockers so the bears don't tear them up). If you have never packed a bear canister, try this. A garcia bear can (park rents them to you) holds 614 cubic inches. A five gallon bucket is 1,155 cubic inches, slightly less than two garcia cans (1,228 cu in). If you can pack all the food you are taking, plus the kid toys, wet wipes, diapers, your toiletries, and anything/everything else that has a smell in a single five gallon bucket including your own trash - you have a chance of making a slower, easier backpacking trip work. If you cannot - you will need to carry a third bear canister, or risk a bear getting your stuff - AND risk a big fine from the rangers for letting a bear get your stuff, or, for not having everything in the canister per the regulations.

Packing a bear can with the food, hygiene items and trash of a couple of adults in the bear cans is difficult - doing it with little kids is more heroic yet. This is why we don't see toddlers on the trail. It would make more sense to have reservations for the High Sierra camps with little kids - that way you are not carrying shelters and bear cans, just clothes and supplies for the day's hiking - going from camp to camp you have a restaurant, showers, beds, and bear boxes at each night's stop.

5,000 feet is LOW. It's rare for people to feel symptoms at that elevation. Getting to 8000-9000 you start to feel a real difference - even if elevation doesn't give you actual elevation sickness, most people will start to gasp for oxygen and feel a drag on the limbs.

[Grzldvt]

I think a campsite and day hiking would be much safer for everyone.

You won't be carrying heavy packs and children up steep granite in the full sun at higher elevations than you are used to, the kids' moods and symptoms can change your plans and keep you relaxing in the campsite if necessary, and you will have a bear locker to keep a bunch of goodies and toys in (everything smelling like food goes in the bear can, toys for little kids will smell like food as well as car seats, diapers, lotions, powders, formula, and baby wipes - and need to be in the lockers so the bears don't tear them up). If you have never packed a bear canister, try this. A garcia bear can (park rents them to you) holds 614 cubic inches. A five gallon bucket is 1,155 cubic inches, slightly less than two garcia cans (1,228 cu in). If you can pack all the food you are taking, plus the kid toys, wet wipes, diapers, your toiletries, and anything/everything else that has a smell in a single five gallon bucket including your own trash - you have a chance of making a slower, easier backpacking trip work. If you cannot - you will need to carry a third bear canister, or risk a bear getting your stuff - AND risk a big fine from the rangers for letting a bear get your stuff, or, for not having everything in the canister per the regulations.

Packing a bear can with the food, hygiene items and trash of a couple of adults in the bear cans is difficult - doing it with little kids is more heroic yet. This is why we don't see toddlers on the trail. It would make more sense to have reservations for the High Sierra camps with little kids - that way you are not carrying shelters and bear cans, just clothes and supplies for the day's hiking - going from camp to camp you have a restaurant, showers, beds, and bear boxes at each night's stop.

5,000 feet is LOW. It's rare for people to feel symptoms at that elevation. Getting to 8000-9000 you start to feel a real difference - even if elevation doesn't give you actual elevation sickness, most people will start to gasp for oxygen and feel a drag on the limbs.

This!!!!

[Dave_Ayers]

I hiked Cloud's Rest and Half Dome last week. I'll assume you plan to take the Forsythe Trail from the JMT/Merced Lake Trail up to Cloud's Rest. The only places to get water are (1) a small stream ~0.7 mi north of the Forsythe/Cloud's Rest junction, so plan on ~1.4 mi extra round trip for that. (2) A small lake even further north. There were only 2 campsites I could find near the small stream area. Both are east of the trail. One is behind a large fallen tree with it's stump cantilevered ~10 feet in the air between the 2 stream crossings. The other is near the northern stream crossing.

There isn't any water between those stream crossings and the JMT/Cloud's Rest trail junction about 0.6mi north of the Half Dome/JMT junction, so you'll need to carry enough for that ~6 mile stretch. There are plenty of camp sites at that popular junction, expect a bunch of company. There was a bear patrol there last week, they were trying to dart a troublesome bear but I wasn't fortunate enough to see it.

As others pointed out, the Cloud's Rest climb from the north is a bit nervy and Half Dome is quite strenuous and can be nervy also depending on your level of fear of heights.

[burley]

Thanks again for all the advice. A follow up for any that are curious:

Based on some great advice, and especially water availability we made a few modifications to our trip. We decided to skip the whole loop idea and leave the infant at home. We took the 2 year old and the gDiapers worked great as we were able to put them in the compostable toilet found at the LYV backpackers campground (BTW, the ranger told us we need not pack the diapers in a bear can, but that we were responsible for any cleanup if a bear were to get to them). Our itinerary ended up as follows:

Thursday: Left the car at Glacier Point and Hitchhiked to Mono Meadow. Lazy start and easy hike from Mono Meadows to Illilouette creek. Played in the water and slept there.
Friday: Early start in order to set up camp at LYV and then on to Half Dome. My wife and I took turns waiting at the top of sub-dome with the toddler. On the way down we saw a bear on the trail. This was the only time the toddler saw an animal and didn't say "rawwwwrrrrr". Got back to camp just before dark.
Saturday: Had considered Clouds Rest but the toddler needed a break and I had twisted my ankle on the way up to Half Dome, so we played in the river until 3pm then did a quick trip down to see both Vernal and Nevada falls. Came back up to LYV via the (much more pleasant) John Muir trail.
Sunday: Packed up and took the Panorama trail to Glacier Point, arriving at 1:30 pm.

Overall I think I added up that we did about 25 miles, only half of which we had full packs on (though even day pack weight added up to about 45lbs including the toddler). Packs totaled about 110 lbs when we started (including food, water, and toddler). I probably had 60 of that while the wife had 50. Once we got rid of food and carried less water, we got down to about 90 total on the way out (25 of which was the kid).

Also, the toddler did not hike as much as expected, even though the trails were easier than he's used to. I think he's more and more interested in rocks and sticks, and has figured out we'll carry him if he refuses to walk.

A few observations: We felt GREAT after the trip, and almost regretted not doing more. That said, we loved our itinerary and felt we were able to see quite a bit without working too hard. Yosemite is incredible, it lives up to the hype. Taking a toddler (in a pack) up to the top of sub-dome was no big deal for us, and after I did Half Dome I don't think it would have been a big deal for me to take him up and down Half Dome (in a pack).That said, for many people we realize taking a toddler even to the bottom of sub-dome would be a huge feat. It totally depends on the persons experience and the carrier (we have a very comfortable and very secure Osprey kid carrier). For the record, Rangers have no problem with kids on Half Dome (you are responsible for your own safety, what a great concept) but they do care if you have a permit for said child.

Elevation was never a problem. Our biggest problem on the trip was getting the toddler to fall asleep at night, he was just too excited--we resorted to looking at cell phone picture with him to avoid disturbing the neighbors, something we are normally against. We had minimal Mosquito problems but did have bears mess with our bags both nights at LYV--one managed to find an empty granola bar wrapper we had used months ago but couldn't find ourselves.

The toddler loved playing in the water and did great about not getting in too deep or wandering off. We kept him cool while hiking with the shade protector on his carrier and with a squirt bottle we always take with us. Of course, sunscreen was frequently re-applied.

We took 30 degree bags and needed them the first night. LYV was quite warm though. Two bear canisters ended up working great, with a LITTLE room to spare.

[balzaccom]

Amazing trip. Good for you!

And congratulations----I don't think I could carry 50 pounds anymore!~

[Grzldvt]

Wow, very cool, glad you posted a trip report, that makes many of us feel really great that there was a conclusion and it turned out so positive for you.
Gllad you had a great time, as that is what the park and this Forum are all about!!!
Thanks