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[Yosemite]

wilderness permit application date

Hiking, backpacking, running, biking, climbing, rafting, and other human-powered activities in Yosemite National Park

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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby Phil » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:44 am

You won't run into any problems with trail closures in September. In fact, with the weather and generally fewer people, it's a fantastic time to go. Just offhand, the daytime temperatures in the higher elevations tend to be about in the 60s and 70s...perfect hiking weather.
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby cornestache » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:36 am

Wow! I can't wait to get there !

Would you also know if there are nice camp site on illilouette creek trail close to mono meadows junction or illilouette fall?

I was thinking of having the first night at bernice lake, then washburn lake, lower ottoway lake (maybe hang the for half day, that means second night at triple peak fork instead), somewhere on illilouette creek, then somewhere coming down from clouds rest and the last night at cathedral lakes

How does that sound?
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby Phil » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:38 pm

You can't camp above Illilouette Falls, and there are a lot of restricted areas throughout that whole lower drainage. You need to go to the link below and get your bearings- where the arrowheads end, beyond that is where it's okay to camp. Anything inside the lines is illegal, and if you're caught, you get cited and escorted out. Bad deal! If you want to stay closer to the Mono Meadows trailhead, there are some sites along Illilouette Creek around the junction with the Buena Vista trail. These sites may be crowded. Since you're coming down from Ottoway anyhow, better and more private sites are up by the Clark Fork. You'll pass so many on your hike down the trail along Illilouette Creek that your biggest problem finding one is deciding which one. Please think twice about whether you really need a fire in September.

https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/ ... eID=292137

Personally, I'll take Babcock Lake on the Fletcher Creek trail over Bernice Lake on Lewis Creek, but you need to make your route decision back at Tuolumne Pass.

I don't know how you're going to be with mileage and altitude, but don't take for granted how it's going to effect you...I've been doing this regularly for a long time, and I've hit the wall at Vogelsang more than once. Maybe throw an extra day on your permit beyond what you think you'll need, and if you can, try to arrive a couple days early and just hang out in camp, but make sure you schedule for after the last hurrah on Labor Day weekend...it'll be nuts.

If you're camping at Washburn, even though Triple Fork is beautiful and has plenty of sites, do try to get up to Lower Ottoway Lake that same day and spend your down time the next day there. You won't regret that decision. Sleep in.

The only real tweaks I might suggest is what you do after you pass Little Yosemite Valley and begin heading up the JMT. It's not so far mileage-wise, but it's steep down from Illilouette, and a long uphill slog to where you're allowed to camp on the JMT at Sunrise Creek (Make LYV nothing but a passing memory) I wouldn't try to push up and over Cloud's Rest that same day if you can help it. Instead, I would look for a site somewhere around the junction of the JMT and CR trails, then do CR the next day. You'll have a better site with plenty of water, and that's easier and more realistic for it. It's going to be September, so water sources are going to be more valuable opportunities, and that's just not going to come about going over CR. Certainly not for more than hydration purposes (btw- There MIGHT be a viable trailside spring on the way up, but your next certain water source is a creek about 2-ish+ miles down the other side from the summit...don't underestimate your water needs that morning, seriously!!!). That night, I would go ahead and make another shorter day of it and camp at one of the Sunrise Lakes. It's going to be so much nicer and rewarding in every way from almost all the alternatives closer to CR! From there, next day to camp at Upper Cathedral Lake. Last day, you'll be back at Tuolumne in plenty of time to have burgers for lunch.

I know what you mean about being stoked. We're so ready!! Since it's such a big and exciting trip for you, from so far away, trust me, take the time to go at a comfortable pace, get used to the altitude, and mostly, to spend the time it takes to be there and enjoy it.
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby Phil » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:49 pm

*** I don't want to mislead you about the weather. Just so you're clear;

Great conditions are the norm for September, and you can probably count on it, but things can and do turn. We've been out on that trail a couple weeks after you're planning to go and been pounded by rain, blasted by winds, and finally, snowed out of Red Peak because we didn't have the right gear for it. So yeah, it's a variable. We had the whole wilderness to ourselves, but we ended up bailing and did not have a good time.

In other words, stay on top of the forecasts.
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby cornestache » Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:32 pm

Great!
This so helpful!! I'll gladly take all your tweaks and tips!
Indeed i've been planning this trip for a couple weeks so far and still shaping it.
We have some flexibility on the schedule and hike.
In fact i have 3 weeks in cali, so i'm not going to be running those trails, but wouldn't spend more than 10-12 days in the park.
Food supply is the main reason why i'm thinking of keeping it to 7-8 days on the trails, it might also be a good idea to stash some of our food at happy isles.
I was thinking of hanging in camp at tuolomne meadows or white wolf for the first day (got pills to help me get used to elevation faster).
Last summer i was in perou at 3400m (11 000ft) and went up to 4600m (15 000ft), i stayed at 11 000ft for the first 2 days, i was ok but a little weird.
But after it wasn't such a problem to climb up to 15 000ft.

So yeah i think it would be good to hang at least a day in camp before starting our hike.
Plus i'm thinking of doing between 15-20km (9-13miles) a day and could probably do more on a flat surface.

Thanks for the babcock tip, i was thinking of either babcock, bernice or emeric lake on the first night but it might be better to stop at vogelsang since distance wise bernice lake would be a good hike for me and my friend if there are steep climbs.

We would probably sleep at the junction of triple peak fork and isberg in order to kick it back for an afternoon at lower ottoway.
Sleep somewhere on illilouette creek (close to the arrow head but not in the restricted area) around the mono meadows or clark fork (can't find clark fork on the trailheads map).
Then hit up clouds rest and sleep somewhere at the junction of clouds rest and JMT.
Hang at sunrise and cathedral lakes for a day or two.
We would most likely spend 7-8 days on the trails if that sounds resonable.

Of course there's some flexibility in that itinerary, cause like you said we'll see how we feel on site.

Where are the biggest climbs?
Is there a flatland somewhere along the way?

We're all set weather wise but yeah, it would suck to have to hike all that in down pour conditions.
It's always better to be prepared for cold and rainy weather.

What's the thing with having a fire in september? Is it cause of the drought?
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby Phil » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:47 pm

Get a legit map! Try the Tom Harrison 1:63,360 "Yosemite High Country".

There are definitely some big ups and downs, and there are certainly some steeps, but most of it is just plain long. Biggest is Harden Lake to Red Peak Pass, more so after Triple Fork Junction (loose). Second is Sunrise Creek up to the summit of CR. Rafferty to Tuolumne Pass is just 4.9 miles of consistent climbing, but not so much all particularly steep.

Clark Fork will show up on your map about 5-ish miles down from the junction at Upper Merced Pass Lake. If you're going to be carrying a GPS, I'll be happy to give you the rough coordinates in UTM format, but it'll be hard to miss when you're there.

You might also consider Mono Meadow trailhead for your food drop and just have someone hoof it over without their pack to pick it up. The lockers in the Valley get a lot more use and people poking through them, and I don't recall if there are lockers right at the base of the trail at Happy Isles or not, so you would probably have to walk or bus it over to one of the parking lots by Curry Village.
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby cornestache » Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:08 am

bought the map this morning, i will use a compass and i guess they're identifying the trails at each fork?

sounds nice :)
as long as there's only one good climb a day it won't be a problem.

[quote="Phil"]
"You might also consider Mono Meadow trailhead for your food drop and just have someone hoof it over without their pack to pick it up."

what do you mean by that (sorry french is my first language)?
is there a delivery service?
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby balzaccom » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:03 pm

There are signs at almost all the trail junctions that look like this:

Image
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby Phil » Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:18 pm

Désolé A propos de ça...

Jonctions Trail étant l'intersection où se termine sentier et une autre commence.

Par " goutte alimentaire " Je veux dire un endroit où vous stockez de la nourriture pour la prochaine partie de votre voyage. Presque chaque tête de piste aura des casiers d'ours en métal. Ces casiers à Mono Meadows sera probablement plus facile pour vous d'obtenir à de Yosemite Valley, mais vous aurez à conduire jusqu'à Glacier Point Road pour y mettre votre nourriture avant votre voyage. Laissant que la nourriture, il y aura également signifier que vous obtenez votre nourriture au moins un jour plus tôt, et vous pouvez avoir moins de poids de la nourriture pour les plus grandes ascensions dans les premiers jours.

Désolé, non, il n'y a pas de service de delvery. Vous aurez à obtenir là-bas vous.
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby balzaccom » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:16 pm

Nicely done, Phil

I promise to return the favor if we need any Spanish or Italian advice!
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby cornestache » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:12 am

Ahah wow!!! c'est excellent, je suis très impressionné!
merci infiniment pour tous ces détails!
Votre français est excellent Phil! où l'avez vous appris?

you guys rock! i mean seriously!
yeah mono meadows seems the most appropriate place for the food drop when i look at the map.
that will cut the weight off especially if we want a little bit of booze for the last days on the trail.

how long is the drive to mono meadows and tuolomne meadows if you're coming from Big oak entrance?
even if it's a 2h drive just to get to mono meadows it's totally worth it not to have to haul a couple extra pounds of food for 3-4 days.

i can't wait to read Dharma Bums again and actually be in the sierra while reading Kerouac's adventures
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby Phil » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:09 am

Lycee et ma soeur.

I'm not sure about the mileage from Big Oak Flat, but 2 hours sounds about right. Since you're going to be up there dropping off food anyhow, use the drive as a good excuse to visit Glacier Point for some sightseeing.

Pick up your bear canisters in the ranger station at Big Oak Flat. Rental is $5 per canister for the whole trip. You should plan for each person in your group to have to carry one. Spend some time while you're at camp in Tuolumne figuring out how to pack them. Make sure everything fits, including your scented toiletries, and make knowing the rules for food storage part of your planning- you will be in some areas with lots of bears. Get some ZipLok freezer bags for food and garbage. Drop the canisters off when you leave the park.

Carry a compass, but you shouldn't need it if you stay on the trails. If you bought the Tom Harrison map, all the trail junctions are red dots with altitudes shown, and as Balzaccom said/showed, they'll almost certainly be marked by signs.
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby cornestache » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:13 am

nice! then good job it's almost perfect, even the grammar's good (kids nowa days are messing that up like a horror movie, you wouldn't believe it...)

yeah! i was thinking of that, glacier point and dewey point sounded like nice places to see .

i already got my bear canister herem i recently bought the backpacker's cache 812 (since it's the comon model accepted for the adirondacks and yosemite) so packing my food shouldn't be a problem for me.
but my friend will have to rend one for sure.

for toileteries, if i have a pine scented soap for everything (myself and cooking ware) should i still keep it in the bear canister?
i doubt it, but you never know!
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby balzaccom » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:07 am

Yes. Soap, lotion, sunscreen all go on the bear can. Anything that a bear might think is edible has to go in the can.

Dewey Point is lovely, but a long hike (11 miles). But Sentinel Dome and Taft are much shorter, and give great views!
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Re: wilderness permit application date

Postby Phil » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:41 am

If it goes in your mouth or on your skin, it goes into the canister. That includes garbage and wrappers in your pockets. That also includes booze, too. If you leave your pack alone and beyond your immediate reach for any reason, take the canister out.

https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/ ... isters.htm

I don't know if you fly much with backpacking gear, but fuel canisters and/or bottles aren't allowed on commercial airliners, either as carry-ons or checked. Also make sure your stove is clean of any traces of fuel. You can find liquid or canister fuel either on the way to the park from SF at somewhere like REI, in Yosemite Valley, or at the gear shop in Tuolumne.
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